Where's Simplicio?
From: Leslie Hancock
Subject: Fotos
To: Neil Fiertel
A few worth showing, I guess.
http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022104426_G – American Bison http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022111848_G – Bear photo #1 http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022115707_G – Dog's geometry http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022124731_G – Bear photo #2
My favorite of that lot is the last one. I was repelled by the zoo's fake bear decor and tried for a photo that would make it look even fakier. Note the Hollywood clouds, for instance...
From: Neil Fiertel
Date: October 24, 2006 9:07:01 AM EDT
To: Leslie Hancock
The problem I have with photo in controlled environments is that the photo is in essence a documentary of the designed space done by someone else. I know that lighting and whatnot makes it continually changing but I have trouble putting aside the very nature of the space as being an original statement from you. The Bison image is of course a kind of odd statement of nature reality...it does not exist in most of the world but as a picture, I guess it is more of a kind of jounalism due to the overriding statement. For me, I do not want photography or any other art form to be too much out front about what it is about. Your forays into shooting folks I think requires a certain amount of thought in terms of what you want the people to be in the image...are they formally a significant part in terms of their very shapes and forms, do they act as actors in a tableau or a prop in some story line? Sounds tacky but I sense that there has not been an internal decision on your part what the figure is actually in your images for. They seem often to be a kind of prop or a very strongly felt...they are strangers...they do not share intimacy with the viewer which I find to be a problem for me at least. I want to feel involved with them in thier thoughts or experience in a voyeuristic way. Even a hand can have that kind of connexion. One needs a telephoto I suppose for you to be comfortable doing that and I suggest that though you like the look of the wide angle...you do not have the aggressive personality that would allow you to barge right into someone's life and thoughts with a camera blazing away...nor the body armour to pull it off... Better then to stand way away with a 500 mm lens equivalent and IS and go for it without anyone being aware of it. Frankly, if I were to do that kind of photo that is what I would do as I would never move in with a WA on someone whom I did not know. I might be off the mark and no doubt you will have a rationale for the images of people...formal this and that, ironic this and that but anyway...this is what I see missing...further knowledge about them or more importantly...about you... Look at the great shots of Nachtwey, Cartier-Bresson, even Brandt who surely is the coolest of the lot...they still get into the skin of their subjects... Neil
From: Leslie Hancock
Subject: Clement Greenberg's Bald Spot
To: Neil Fiertel
Most interesting thoughts, thanks. I too have thought a lot about such things – too much, probably, since that inhibits the gestural quality of graphic arts.
Mixed media, or mixed-up media, have great appeal to me because of their complication. Movies, comic strips, still photography mingle strictly formal considerations (geometry, color, figure and ground and so forth) with documentation and narrative in an impure way that appeals to the slob in me. Sometimes the biggest component is the one the viewer brings to the page, which I can't foresee. In that sense, and also in the sense that a photo of something does begin with the something, and owes something to that something, which if it's a construction like a stage set or a work of art or just a funny face, means the photographer's at best a collaborator, and collaborators are often shot. But I can live (or die) with that. As you note (elliptically) in mentioning my refusal to engage the people in my people pictures, I try to be invisible and egoless, and to prize the final product rather than my own claim to fame.
"They seem often to be a kind of prop...they are strangers...they do not share intimacy with the viewer." Yes! It's what I want. Sometimes I even black them out entirely: http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022134050a. To that very end.
The great thing about photography is that it doesn't have to strive for mimesis as painters and sculptors do, or used to do. The mimetic quality is a given, the raw material to work with as we list. It's so convincing that people consistently mistake the photograph for the thing itself, looking at a picture of the Grand Canyon and saying "Oh, that's so beautiful," when what they mean is that the Grand Canyon is beautiful – a strange and terrible metonymy, yet one that provides us photographers with a huge lever to move people's feelings. One we have to learn to use wisely.
Always important to remember that a photographic or sculptural rendering of, say, a pretty girl is not a substitute for a pretty girl, being only skin deep and therefore ultimately frustrating or even physically dangerous. But a picture (or other representation) can be prettier than a pretty girl, the artist having contributed something extra. In which case we see (for once) that it's the picture, not the girl, that's pretty.
Naturally, I don't wanna be dogmatic or stuck in a rut, so when I see the chance I make a picture even if it's just for pretty, and if I see the chance to make one of those under-the-skin portraits I'll do that too. I don't know many people intimately, though, so the few such photos I've done are of you or Chris or just a couple other folks. I like this one of Chris a lot: http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_september/060918222146_G. (Plus it shows off the B&W style I'm pursuing.) And this oldie is one of my favorites also: http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/04_July/060711121643_G.
Further to the issue of people as props and up-front statements in photos. Certainly I agree with you about photos or other images that make a facile statement, like simple propaganda pictures of the slanty-eyed, bespectacled Jap with a skewered baby on his sword. That kind of thing repels me, unless I get some kind of campy kick out of it. But there are degrees of subtlety and satire, and I do appreciate, and practice, some of them, though usually with the aftertaste of having sucked on something dirty. Probably my feelings about certain issues are too strong and should not be indulged – like that photo of the Statue of Liberty with a huge barbed fence around it and a sign saying (you can't make these things up) NO ADMITTANCE.
More commendably, I think, I try to evoke feelings or even thoughts through the fabric of the image. Consider one of the photos I sent you last night: http://www.quinbus.net/gallery/06_october/061022115707_G – "Dog's geometry," I called it. Surely the people there are props. I did think about making their faces entirely black, but decided that would be going too far. Anyway, the point is that the flattened perspective, the painful sharpness and accumulation of detail, the lack of a central subject, the darkness, in other words the look and feel of the picture, not its specific contents, should tend toward a point of view, very literally a way of seeing the world, that I want the viewer to experience, or share, or "get," for the moment they spend inside the image.
Can you dig it?
From: Leslie Hancock
Subject: PS
To: Neil Fiertel
Remember, though it's always wrong to generalize, you and I feel an attraction of opposites probably, 'cause we stand at different ends of the earth regarding art and people – you're certainly more emotional and attuned to human beings and humanism and humanity and feelings and issues of fairness and justice and love and hate and content, while I'm certainly unfeeling and dislike people and distrust feelings and prize logic and reason and formalism. Hot vs cold. Warm and fuzzy monkey vs dead fish on a bed of ice. Romantic vs classical. Bread-and-circuses vs let-them-eat-cake. Haha, but something in it.
From: Neil Fiertel
Subject: Re: Clement Greenberg's Bald Spot
To: Leslie Hancock
You see...the two pictures of Chris are real...they are fine art works because they are not merely documents but allow the viewer to see what you see in the subject. They are relational and thus tie all areas together. They would have been invisible to the world had you not seen and tied this to a visual object. They evoke and elucidate as it were and are not just documentation. Do this more often as these two examples attest and you are doing what I call art...some of the images you took of me as horrible as I look..work for the same reason. In spite of your wish to remain anon you cannot and thus, release your own self in these images... Good for that... Neil